So Why Bother?
That is the question that most people are asking when it comes to being apart of the local church: Why Bother? As we have spent the last nine months investing relationally in North Austin - we have asked hundreds of people about God, church, Jesus, & Christians.....the responses have been candid and revealing!
Each week at Crossroads we are taking a look at the top 6 perceptions that "outsiders" (men & women outside of the church who would say they are not followers of Christ)have of Christians and the local church. Check out Gabe Lyons & David Kinnaman's book UNchristian (releases 10/01/07).
These past two weeks we have looked at the perceptions that Christians are Hypocritical & Only care about getting people "Saved"......We would love your feedback and to hear your stories! Do you aggree or disagree.....you can listen to past messages on our website www.crossroadschurchaustin.com.
Each week at Crossroads we are taking a look at the top 6 perceptions that "outsiders" (men & women outside of the church who would say they are not followers of Christ)have of Christians and the local church. Check out Gabe Lyons & David Kinnaman's book UNchristian (releases 10/01/07).
These past two weeks we have looked at the perceptions that Christians are Hypocritical & Only care about getting people "Saved"......We would love your feedback and to hear your stories! Do you aggree or disagree.....you can listen to past messages on our website www.crossroadschurchaustin.com.
posted by Brady & Christy Traywick at 10:34 AM
9 Comments:
I commented earlier today on your post titled, "I need your advice." Now I thought of something else I would like to add but it seems to fit in with this post better.
Our church, a couple years ago, put a survey out into the community asking people what they would want in a church, or something along those lines. It was similar to what a pastor of a popular church in California did when they started. Why in the world would we ask non-believers that question? They are lost, the gospel is foolishness to them, they don't have the spirit. They couldn't possibly know what they should have (want) in a church. Give them the Word. It's plain from reading Acts, the New Testament diagram of a church, that it is for the edification of believers. Then we are to be equipped by the pastors to go out and witness to people. Too many churches are designing their programs to be cool and edgy and attractive to the world so they will feel comfortable in church. We should be nice to non-believers who enter our church, but they should not feel very comfortable there. If they hear the cross preached and that christians need to take up their cross daily, I doubt they will feel too comfortable.
Don't tickle people's ears dude. Tell them the truth. Of course a healthy dose of grace would help too. :)
Brady, I challenge you to read the book, (I hardly ever recommend books), "Hard to Believe" By John McCarthur. It will open your eyes.
Tom,
Let's get one thing straight. Church is not for Christians. Sure, it may be where they go for fellowship, but I can do that at Starbucks or the local mall. Churches are started, or should be started, with the hope and mission of reaching non-christians. Brady is right-on to ask the unchurched why they don't go to church and ask them what it would take to get them into a church. The mission of every christ follower should be to make God known to the unchurched. How do we do that? Not by going with the model that we have had for the last 100 years, because that is not working in Austin, TX. We have over 1.5 million people in our area, and maybe 10% darken the doors of a church at least once a year. That is it. We have to be willing to adapt. Brady is not changing the message, just the way that it is presented. If we are going to change the world, or in Brady's case, change Austin, we have to be willing to do things differently and think outside of the box. If that means asking a non-believer what it will take to get them into a church, so be it.
Josh, where is it in scripture that the church is where we bring in the unsaved? Look in Acts. It is for the edification of believers. I didn't say it was for drinking coffee. You're right, I can go to starbucks or borders for that. In fact, people can go to the movies for great video instead of the church, and they can go to concerts or switch on their I-pods for whatever music they want to hear instead of darkening the door of a church. People don't need to go to church for all this stuff, they can find it anywhere. What they need is the word and genuiness. As long as you have that and the holy spirit is working in their hearts, then you have something. I hope you guys are doing that.
To ask people what they want in a church. Think about that for a while. What do non-believers know about what they want (should get) in a church. I never said they should get old fashioned music and hard pews and people wearing suits and ties. But think about it Josh, there's a news source out there that gives people daily updates on "Britney Spears", and they're not embarrassed about it. In fact they want us to consider them a viable, dependable news source that reports important news. Let's ask them, what they want in a church. Ha!
I'm sorry if you can't see that the Bible needs to be where we get our guidelines to running a church, not the world.
"I'm sorry if you can't see that the Bible needs to be where we get our guidelines to running a church, not the world."
Tom,
You can look on the front page of Brady's blog and see a link to his church's homepage. Their beliefs and their approach to running a church (aka: mission and vision statements) are totally based on scripture and this thing called The Great Commission. I have been to Brady's church a couple of times, and can honestly say that the way that they run a church is Biblical. Until you buy a plane ticket from Jersey to Austin and come see how things are being done and how the lost of the area surrounding Brady's church are being reached, I don't see that you have a whole lot of room to criticize. Peace.
Peace Josh. I just pray that churches including Brady's are finding their answers in and trying to reach people in and through the Word of God. That's all man. I'm glad you guys are reaching people in the Austin area. It's a liitle impractical for me to fly there and visit as you suggest. Of course I'm sure the actual suggestion was for me to just shut up. I hear ya. So I should put my head in the sand as people are sucked in to believe the whole Market Driven philosophy of asking unsaved people what they want in a church, and trying to market their churches product so it's not offensive to the "unchurched" and telling the lie that the "unchurched" are not offended by Christ but by Christians. I can't do that. The Word says "if the world hates you, don't worry, it hated Me first." The world needs to see Christ and the cross.
Peace.
Tom, this is the third time in a week that I have heard this argument about the world hating us and my response is that I don't think the tax collectors, prostitutes, beggars, lepers, and sinners were uncomfortable with Jesus. They were hanging on every word he said because he loved them and was real with them. He spoke in parables and stories, not in bible-thumping rhetoric. The only people he made uncomfortable were the pharisees. Perhaps you should allow the gospel to make you a little uncomfortable sometimes? Blessed are the poor in spirit. Stop being a martyr. Just because people don't like you doesn't mean God is pleased.
God wrapped his gospel into a message that we could understand. He was incarnational--came and dwelled and breathed and lived among us--understood us. Are we not called to do the same?
Amy, in response to your interesting comments...I'm not advocating Bible thumping rhetoric over parables and stories. But I would rather hear the word of God preached than watch edgy videos that supposedly reach people better.
By the way, who said anything about being a martyr?
As far as letting the gospel make me a little uncomfortable, praise God it does make me a little uncomfortable, or maybe a better way to put it is, convicted. For a few years while I was attending and working fulltime as a Worship Pastor at a church that was market driven, I noticed feeling less and less convicted by the watered down preaching. When that ended and we found a church where the Bible was actually preached, and it wasn't sugar coated so as not to offend anyone, it was like a breath of fresh air. And talk about conviction, or feeling uncomfortable, it was there again.
Maybe you've never read this passage but I want to share it with you.
John 15:18-
If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as it's own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but
I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the words I spoke to you. No servant is greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.
It's not my idea, or me trying to be a martyr. That's just what the word says Amy.
Amy,
John 7:7 The world can't hate you, but it does hate me because I accuse it of sin and evil.
1John 3:11-13 11 This is the message we have heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12 We must not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and killed his brother. And why did he kill him? Because Cain had been doing what was evil, and his brother had been doing what was right. 13 So don't be surprised, dear brothers and sisters, if the world hates you. N.L.T.
(by the way if you see an apparent contradiction, investigate into it and find out why it looks like that.)
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